BURT SPEAKS IN PARLIAMENT ON SOLIHULL POST OFFICE CLOSURES

10.48.11am BST (GMT +0100) Wed 23rd Jul 2008

Solihull's MP, Lorely Burt spoke twice in Parliament yesterday in defence of Solihull Post Offices under threat of closure.

"It is absolutely vital ministers understand their post office closure programme is unwanted and unwelcome," said Lorely.

"I will take every opportunity I can to hammer the message home."

Westminster Hall debate: am Tuesday 22nd July

Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I congratulate the hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs. Gillan) on securing this debate. There are hon. Members all over the country who are desperate to secure a similar type of debate, so she has done extremely well to secure this one.

I have huge sympathy for everyone in the whole of Buckinghamshire who is affected by post office closures. It is a process of consultation which I might choose to put in inverted commas if I were writing the Hansard report of this debate. It is happening all over the country. Indeed, at present three post offices in my constituency are due to be closed.

A total of 5,500 post offices have closed since this Government came to power, which amounts to 29 per cent. of the entire network. However, it must be said that at least this Government have subsidised the network to date to the tune of £2 billion and they intend to provide more subsidy. By contrast, under the previous Conservative Government more than 3,000 branches were closed and my understanding is that there was no subsidy for them.

Mrs. Gillan: I believe that for a large part of the time under the Conservative Government the Post Office actually made a profit, and I speak advisedly and declare an interest, because my husband was a civil servant in the Department of Trade and Industry who was responsible for the Post Office at the time.

Lorely Burt: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that intervention.

The hon. Lady spoke eloquently about vulnerable people and their reliance on the post office. I wonder whether it might be helpful to quote some statistics sent to me by my local Shirley citizens advice bureau. One thousand visitors to its website were surveyed. They commented that a six-week consultation was too short for the most vulnerable people to be included. The survey revealed that more than 90 per cent. would be personally affected if their post office closed, and that three quarters of those respondents would be significantly affected.

Three quarters of the respondents could get to their local post office on foot. However, if their nearest post office were to close, only 14 per cent. would be able to do so. Also, if vulnerable people-those on benefits, for example-had to take public transport, they would have to find an additional amount of money somewhere. More than 60 per cent. of the over-75s use the post office to pay their bills. The survey illustrates what the hon. Lady and the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) and the hon. Member for North-East Milton Keynes (Mr. Lancaster) said about the closures being a country-wide problem. The hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham spoke about access and hills. In my constituency, the problem is exactly the opposite in the case of the Olton Hollow

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post office. It is situated in a hollow, and accessing either of the two alternative post offices would involve a huge climb.

The hon. Lady spoke about serving commercial communities, including large communities such as Amersham hospital. The Catherine de Barnes post office, which is a little post office in my constituency, is convenient for people to stop at on their way to or from the national exhibition centre and the airport, both of which are also situated in my constituency. No thought seems to have been given to where those people will go to access a post office, should that one not be available to them.

All the speakers this morning spoke about the queues that are already prevalent in the next existing post office. When I took a petition around to 35 local shops in Shirley, the shopkeepers said, "Please don't make us go to the Stratford Road post office," which is the alternative to the Haslucks Green Road post office. They said that waiting there could take 35 or 40 minutes, and that as local businesses they just did not have the time to do that. So, although there was another post office closer, they were not using it.

Mr. Bill Olner (in the Chair): Order. I remind the hon. Lady that the debate is about post office closures in Buckinghamshire. I do not think that Shirley is anywhere near Buckinghamshire.

Lorely Burt: Thank you, Mr. Olner. I beg your pardon. I was carried away by my enthusiasm for my own area, in which I am so ensconced at present. I will try not to do that.

The hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield spoke about deprivation in areas that are considered to be wealthy. For many elderly people, having money does not make any difference. Often, they do not have access to transport, but they still need to get out; they still need to have a social life. I do not believe that there is a direct correlation between needing a post office and the amount of money that one has. Coming from a similar supposedly wealthy constituency, I have a huge amount of sympathy with him.

The hon. and learned Gentleman mentioned the sub-postmistress who informed him that she had been told not to speak to the press. A similar situation exists if a post office is in premises owned by another organisation such as, for example, the Co-op. We were not allowed to run a petition in one of my post offices but had to stay outside and collect our signatures in the rain.

The hon. Member for North-East Milton Keynes asked whether the closures were a foregone conclusion and questioned the process. He was right to do so, because we are not allowed under any circumstances to obtain trading figures. We are allowed to know the footfall but a shroud of secrecy has been drawn over the economic situation of every post office, in the interests-so say the Government-of commercial confidentiality. But how are we to know which post offices are viable and which are not if we do not have access to such information?

People say, "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you," but I wonder whether there is some kind of conspiracy. Are the Government closing post offices that may, indeed, be more profitable

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than others, eventually to obtain an even slimmer post office network? Instead of 11,000 post offices, are they actually aiming for closer to the 7,500 that are needed to meet their access criteria? If they were to close the more profitable post offices, those that would be left would struggle even more.

In conclusion, the Government say that they want a sustainable network, but I do not understand how they propose to achieve one if services are withdrawn, if things such as the Post Office card account are under threat and if the Post Office has to re-tender for its own services. By making queues longer, the Government are ensuring that footfall away from post offices will increase: physically attending a post office will become less and less feasible, thereby making it even more difficult to get to a post office. All those things are conspiring to decimate our post office network and to make it less, not more, sustainable. I am sorry to say that this Government, even though they do not let us know the price of everything, do not seem to understand the value of the post office network.

House of Commons Adjournment debate: pm 22nd July

4.15 pm

Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I should like to speak for a few minutes on a subject that I know is close to the hearts of many hon. Members. We are all suffering, or have suffered, or will suffer, from post office closures in our constituencies. We in Solihull are lucky-if that is the right word-because only three post offices are earmarked for closure. However, having lost several important post offices in the cull that we experienced a few years ago, each one that we have left plays a vital role.

Our story in Solihull is also being played out across the country, and the questions that it raises are pertinent to every Member's constituency. The hon. Member for North Dorset (Mr. Walter) mentioned the criteria that can be used to try to obtain a reversal of a decision to close a post office. Three criteria of which I am aware are: unforeseen planning proposals that might increase unpredicted footfall; the difficulty of reaching other, more distant, post offices; and the deprivation that would be suffered as a result of the closure.

By extraordinary coincidence, one of those three criteria pertains to each proposed closure in Solihull. In Haslucks Green road, in Shirley, a superstore and shopping development is planned, despite the fact that we already have six supermarkets in Shirley high street. I have fought bitterly against the Asda superstore, but our failure to prevent this unwanted development has turned out to have a silver lining. Haslucks Green post office is just a few hundred yards away from it, and it will be besieged, not least by people who cannot even get to the superstore because of the traffic congestion that will be created.

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Distance is another criterion that can be used. The Post Office, having encouraged the owner of the post office in Catherine de Barnes to grow his business, is now suggesting that it should be closed. I cannot match some of the ridiculous examples given by other hon. Members about people being unable to get a bus back home from the post office the same day, but Catherine de Barnes is a small village, and the bus to Solihull only comes about every 70 minutes, if we are lucky. The idea of going anywhere other than Solihull by bus is really not feasible. The post office is the only shop in the village, but it has a unique advantage in that it has a combi-counter which offers post office services seven days a week, up to 9 o'clock at night. People come from miles around to use it.

Deprivation is the third criterion. In Olton Hollow, there is more sheltered housing and, arguably, more elderly people than anywhere else in the borough. Olton Hollow, as the name suggests, is in a hollow, so anyone wanting to reach another post office would have a physical and metaphorical steep hill to climb.

Citizens Advice carried out an online survey, and it might help the House if I were to quote some of its findings. Citizens Advice feels that six weeks is too short a time for the proper consultation of vulnerable people. More than 90 per cent. of those who completed its online survey said that they would be personally affected if their local post office were to close, while 75 per cent. said that they would be significantly affected. In addition, 75 per cent. of respondents to the survey said that they could get to a local post office on foot, but only 14 per cent. would still be able to do so if the local office closed. For people on benefits, of course, there would be an additional cost if they could no longer reach their office on foot. The survey found that half of the over-65s and nearly half of those on means-tested benefits visited post offices several times a week. Despite what the Government may say, more than 60 per cent. of the over-75s still use the post office to pay many household bills.

In Solihull, just as elsewhere, other criteria apply that are not being given proper consideration. For example, what happens if the nearest alternative is already too busy, with elderly people waiting in queues for long periods of time? We were not allowed to run a petition inside the post office in Shirley as the shop is owned by the Co-op, so the owners of 35 local shops agreed to take it instead. Many of them said, "For goodness sake, please don't let them close the post office at Haslucks Green, because we don't want to have to wait 45 minutes at the one here." They said that even though the post office in Shirley was physically nearer for them.

What about parking? If it is a nightmare to park near the nearest post office, what will that mean for people forced to use transport to reach their post office? What about the effect of a post office closure on the surrounding local economy? In Olton Hollow, for example, the closure of the post office will affect the footfall in the local parade of shops.

When I raised these questions with the relevant Minister this morning, he blamed the decrease in post office business on changes in technology such as the internet. Of course, some patterns of business do change, but many services, such as the provision of TV licences, have been withdrawn from post offices. Moreover, different criteria now apply for online payments such as for car

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tax. Following the withdrawal of Post Office books, there has been the reluctant introduction of the Post Office card account. Although that account is difficult to apply for, it remains phenomenally successful, but the Post Office now faces the indignity of having to tender for its own post office card accounts services.

When services are withdrawn, and when people find it more difficult to get to their post offices and queues are longer, that means that the Government are making the post office network unsustainable. In the midlands, there are 160 proposed closures, and only four decisions have been reversed. I am concerned that there is some sort of conspiracy. Our communities are putting themselves through the pain of fighting to save their precious post offices, but it seems to be a done deal already. I have tabled an early-day motion stating that the word "consultation" must mean just that, and that the result must not be a foregone conclusion.